eBoost requirements battery

Faults and Technical chat for the CUPRA Born
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fallinto
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Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:27 pm

Post by fallinto »

Hello

I wish I took a screenshot of the cupra online brochure but rest assured what I read was;

To avail of eboost you must have
>85% capacity for 77kw
>55% capacity for 58kw

I asked the dealer and he knew nothing about this neither did another dealer. It really doesnt make sense to me? and surely if anything the 77kw should have more flexibility / “eboost availability”over the 58kw? Also with most charging to only 80% this would render the eBoost usless on the 77kw battery. Anyone able to shed any light on this? I’m still debating which eboost to get. Finding out the above and if it still true puts me off the 77…

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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

I have no idea but agree with your logic if that info is correct. I wanted an eboost but in reality I'm not even using performance mode on my V2.
I think resale of eboost cars though will be higher.
Born V2-Tech L collected June 22
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Someone else mentioned this on the speakev forum, but I haven't seen it for myself on any literature anywhere, and even if \I had, the VAG brochures and pricelists are often littered with errors, so i'd have to wonder if it's genuine, given how restrictive those stipulations seem.

As you said, the 77kWh battery stipulation would render it useless for anyone following the standard VW guidance that you generally keep a charge from 80 - 20%, and almost half the time for the 58kWh one.

The wife and I each have a 58kWh E-Boost, and i've not seen any situations where the E-Boost has been unavailable to me. It'll only give you 15 seconds of continuous full throttle, but seeing as it takes about 6s to get to 60 (all of the official ID3 and Born 0-62 times look to be understated by around 0.5-0.6s), and the top speed is around 100mph (104mph?), you'd probably just about hit top speed from a standstill in that 15s.

Presumably the car's been designated E-boost to limit to 15s of full throttle either for insurance appeasement purposes (to get a lower risk rating, if it's treated like it only has 204ps), or because the motor/battery wiring hasn't been uprated for the extra current that'll flow during E-boosting. Not sure how long it takes for that 15s limit to top back up or reset between uses.
2022 V2 E-Boost L-Tech Pack - Aurora Blue
2023 Audi S3 - to avoid rapid charging on long journeys.

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girarcat
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Post by girarcat »

Hi! Is there any news about the SoC requirements for the eboost to kick in on the 77kwh model?
I've been unable to find any info on that (aside from what's stated in the first post) and the dealer had no idea about that.
Aside from this, I understand eboost will also kick it if you floor regardless of the driving mode. Is that true?

And how can you know while driving that the eboost has kicked in? Is there any indication on the dash? It would be nice that the green throttle indication bar changed it's size or turned red or any other colour to show the eboost is actuating at the moment.
Elea4
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Post by Elea4 »

girarcat wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 7:34 pm Hi! Is there any news about the SoC requirements for the eboost to kick in on the 77kwh model?
I've been unable to find any info on that (aside from what's stated in the first post) and the dealer had no idea about that.
Aside from this, I understand eboost will also kick it if you floor regardless of the driving mode. Is that true?

And how can you know while driving that the eboost has kicked in? Is there any indication on the dash? It would be nice that the green throttle indication bar changed it's size or turned red or any other colour to show the eboost is actuating at the moment.
A German 77kwh e-boost owner collected this info based on his own experiences:

Leistungsverlauf.jpg

Tabelle2.jpg

As you can see there's a gentle drop-off in power as the SoC drops. The official Cupra documentation states that full e-boost power is only reachable above 85%.

Note: Carscanner's DC Power column is too high here by a power of 10. This data doesn't account for all other potential power use by other systems such as DCC, A/C, etc.

https://www.born-forum.de/forum/thread/ ... /?pageNo=1
monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

I've a 58kWh e-Boost. That graph looks about right, maybe the graph is a little flatter on mine (smaller battery), but using the blue power bar on the driver information screen as an indicator, you can see that even at x% battery level, in cooler temps, the power available is less. You only seem to get a full blue bar above 50% power and over 12C on mine, but that graph also shows that the doesn't simply default to 204ps/150kW when battery SOC/Temp preferences aren't met.

If you floor the throttle past the clicky point, the car will give everything it can, regardless of mode. This is a safety related override feature.

The power on that graph exceeding official 170kW output by 9kW is no surprise - VAG always understate their car's outputs.
2022 V2 E-Boost L-Tech Pack - Aurora Blue
2023 Audi S3 - to avoid rapid charging on long journeys.

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girarcat
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Post by girarcat »

Very interesting graph, thanks! It looks like almost full power is retained down to 70%.
I'm surprised about the total power output stated on the graph. I thought it would default to 204hp whenever eboost was unavailable, but according to this data we get significantly more power than 204hp down to 6% SoC.
Maybe the power figures are a bit of an overstatement? I guess they might be theoretical values, with the actual power on the wheels beig lower, more in line with Cupra's stated figures.
monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

girarcat wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:40 am Very interesting graph, thanks! It looks like almost full power is retained down to 70%.
I'm surprised about the total power output stated on the graph. I thought it would default to 204hp whenever eboost was unavailable, but according to this data we get significantly more power than 204hp down to 6% SoC.
Maybe the power figures are a bit of an overstatement? I guess they might be theoretical values, with the actual power on the wheels beig lower, more in line with Cupra's stated figures.
It could be that the 9kW "overage" on the power allows the car to deliver 170kW to the drivetrain and have the other 9kW spare for other needs of the car like heating and all the background functions, or it could be typical VAG output understatement.

For the ICE range at least, it's widely accepted that VAG understate output so that even when the ICE drivetrain is new and tight, it meets or exceeds stated output and once it's loosened up it'll be a good 5-10% more once run in. I once saw a back to back dyno of a MK5 Golf GTI (200ps) and a MK3 Civic R Type (201ps) - the R Type posted 198ps and the GTI posted 218ps, both had 5k miles on the clock. Even if you don't take the numbers as gospel, it demonstrates proportional differences between the 2 cars.

I know there's not much scope for run-in gains on an EV with much less friction to overcome on the drive train, but I could quite easily imagine the VAG EVs also higher than stated for their output.
2022 V2 E-Boost L-Tech Pack - Aurora Blue
2023 Audi S3 - to avoid rapid charging on long journeys.

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BornAgain
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Post by BornAgain »

I can confirm the e-boost models give it all they have got no matter the drive mode. I tried full power in all the modes (Range, Comfort, Sport and Cupra)
I measured the KW using CarScanner and past the clicky bit of the accelerator. The picture shows it in Cupra mode.
I'm not really sure if e-boost gets turned off, it seems it's always available.
It was a tad lower in Range mode, probably due to the lesser throttle mapping.

186KW.png

monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

BornAgain wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:19 pm I can confirm the e-boost models give it all they have got no matter the drive mode. I tried full power in all the modes (Range, Comfort, Sport and Cupra)
I measured the KW using CarScanner and past the clicky bit of the accelerator. The picture shows it in Cupra mode.
I'm not really sure if e-boost gets turned off, it seems it's always available.
It was a tad lower in Range mode, probably due to the lesser throttle mapping.
The modes are mapped our with varying levels of dulled throttle response,but all that is out of the window when you mash the throttle pedal beyond the clicky bit of travel. It's a safety feature so that no matter what mode you are in, if you need that full power to accelerate out of a situation, it's there.

Same effect seen on all VAG ICE cars with a new model out since 2012.

Nice to see it confirmed there though, with 10% more power output than advertised (187kW), and only 0.2kW taken via consumables.
2022 V2 E-Boost L-Tech Pack - Aurora Blue
2023 Audi S3 - to avoid rapid charging on long journeys.

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